“He’s two right?”
“Yes” I reply… “he was two in June.”
“Oh is he toilet trained yet?”
“No, I don’t think he’s ready yet.”
I had hoped the conversation would end there. After all, toilet training is the ‘do they sleep through the night’ of toddler-hood and since my toddler was obviously lacking in that area I assumed this conversation with the ‘nice-mum-of-a-similar-aged-child’ in the park would end right there, but it didn’t…
“Oh you need to do a sticker chart! Make a reward chart and every time he wees on the potty he gets a sticker, and then when he’s wee-ed ten times he gets a lolly! That’ll have him toilet trained in no time!”.
“Oh he’s not all that fond of lollies…” I muttered as the toddler in question pipped in with “Yolly? I have a yolly?”
“Oh then just use something else. He’s just manipulating you. He just needs a good shove to pee on the potty and you just have to find the right thing to motivate him. What about trains? Mine loves trains…”
I wonder if she saw the look on my face as I frantically tried to work out how to be polite, but not agree. I ended up lying…
“oh look the swings are free, lets hurry over because I know you really wanted a swing today…” and suddenly we had to rush off to the other end of the park…
You see the thing is, reward charts have never graced the walls of our home.
Not during the years and tears of helping the girls use the toilet, not when Izzy decided biting her sister was the best way to vent her frustrations, not when the big boy transitioned to his own bed and learned to go to sleep on his own, and not now that the toddler is magically two but still uninterested in the toilet.
Reward charts are not for us.
Why not? Well… lets see, what would I have said to that Mum in the park if it had been appropriate…
We choose not to motivate our kids using external and unrelated reward systems like sticker charts for a few reasons.
Reward charts tend to look at one tiny facet of behavior, and not look at the child or the situation as a whole. They assume that the child simply chooses to behave in one particular way and is able to change their behavior at the drop of a hat simply because they will get a reward. But behavior doesn’t occur in a vacuum.
Almost always a child’s behavior is more than just what you see on the outside. It is more than just not wanting to go to the toilet, or not wanting to go to bed, and it is almost always not something they can simply turn on and off at will. Looking at the picture as a whole, thinking about why my child is behaving in this way, always works better for us than unrelated bribes or rewards. What is my child’s behavior trying to tell me? What need is not being met? What things can I change to guide them to more appropriate behavior? How can I support my child through this challenge?
When it comes to toilet training and reward charts the assumption is that the child is actually able to feel when they need to go to the toilet and control it, that it is a simple choice… that the child merely needs a ‘shove’ to ‘get over’ whatever is bothering them about using the toilet and they’ll be fine. I know from experience that is not always the case.
Had I used a reward chart for my girls when they were toilet training I would have been setting them up to fail. They simply were not physically ready for a long time, and dangling stickers or lollies in front of them wouldn’t have changed that fact. A reward chart would have become a punishment for something they had no control over and set us up for more anxiety and upset that we were already dealing with. Even with a normally developing child… even as an adult… can you pee or poop on demand?
I also don’t like to use reward charts because I feel it teaches my kids that the only things worth doing are those that get them some kind of reward.
I would rather my children learn how good it feels to accomplish something they have worked hard at, rather than how good it feels to get a sticker. I would rather my children learn how good it makes them feel when they do something for someone else, when they are kind, when they are helpful, rather than how good it feels to get a lolly. I would rather my children experience internal reward and pride, rather than rewards controlled by someone else.
Plus I am a lazy parent. I really don’t want to set my kids to up to always ask for a sticker or a lolly every time they do something good, that’s too hard for me.
I want to build my kid’s understanding and skills and intrinsic motivation so that in the long run they know what is right and wrong, and hopefully, behave accordingly. I want them to be able to listen to their bodies and know when they need to go to bed, or pee, or eat, rather than waiting for a reward to be dangled in front of their faces. Until then I will help them, remind them, support them, encourage them, show them, model for them, talk to them, and love them.
And lets not get me started on using food as rewards… because in my opinion food should never be a bribe or reward.
I am not saying that reward charts are evil incarnate. I think there may be some children and certain behavioral issues where a reward chart works wonders… but for our kids and when it comes to things like toilet training a two year old… reward charts are not for us.
So there you have it… that is what I would have said to that well meaning mum in the park… Except that it just isn’t appropriate to lecture someone you don’t know, just because their parenting ideas differ to yours…
That’s what a blog is for ;)
What about you? Do you reward charts work for you and your kids?
Catherine Rodie Blagg @CoTaaB says
We haven’t used them yet – I’m still undecided, I agree with the points you’ve raised, but on the other hand I had one when I was a kid and remember feeling really proud of all my smiley faces. I must say that what struck me most about this post was your gracious way of dealing with the lady in the park!
Jodi Gibson aka Lipgloss Mumma says
I can certainly see your points. I did use a reward chart for Miss now 7 when she was toilet training, but she was also ready. It didn’t last long, about three days and she had it down pat – yes because she was ready, not necessarily because of the chart.
I think do what works and what you are comfortable with. :)
katef says
I totally agree… doing what works for you and your kids is the best parenting advice I’ve ever been given :)
Donna says
I couldn’t agree with you more I have three older children almost all grown up now and I never used reward systems as the one time I followed advice of another parent similar situation actually created more drama with middle child because he’d worked out being extremely clever that I’ll do everything wrong in attempt to then do “good” for a reward lol
Louisa says
We have used them in the past and honestly, they changed our family! I blogged about it here: http://www.louisaclaire.com/louisa-2/parenting-101-rewards/
I think a big reason it worked for us at that time was that because it helped give us something positive to focus on at a time when Bliss’ beahviour was impacting all of us – including her. There’s a lot more to it than that but in short, we haven’t really used it again since then but it was really really helpful. I don’t think that a reward chart has to stop internal motivation either, of course it can if it becomes about the reward all the time but if it’s about positive reinforcement of a behaviour then I think it can be really useful… Just my thoughts.
Also, I think you were very patient with the mum in the park. Do you think she thought you were a first timer?
katef says
I do think there are times when charts etc can be helpful… I’m totally a never say never person! LOL
I really think the mum in the park was just making conversation, sharing a common challenge. If she had said those same things when my twins were toddlers I probably would have bitten her head off… but I am older and wiser (I hope) now and somewhat less self involved.. and she didn’t know she had hit on a topic we’d disagree on!
Sharon Creighton says
Never used a reward chart either – they get there in the end. Both my kids were 3 before they were fully trained much to some people’s amazement (disgust). Now at 8 and 14 they are pretty good kids despite never having been taught how to by a reward chart :). That isn’t to say I don’t offer my kids rewards for a good school report or other things but it is usually after the fact
Amanda Kendle says
Kate, I love you. For two reasons (today) – one, my 2.5 year old boy is so totally uninterested in potty training and it doesn’t bother me in the slightest (he’ll be ready when he’s ready), but it does seem to bother strangers in the park. Two, I feel the same about reward charts. Yay ;-)
miss.cinders says
I have a couple of times when the kids were smaller, but I don’t think ever for toilet training. The kids bore of them easy anyway… although sometimes you get one who just LOVES pretty stickers next to their name like one of my girls did.
Imagine if I was in your place at the park and she discovered one of mine didn’t toilet train until nearly five!
Why do people expect so much off little kids?
katef says
My girls were not day trained till they were four and not night trained till they were nearly six… they physically hadn’t matured enough to master it, and it wouldn’t have mattered how many lollies they were given :)
Kate says
I’ve never used one, I can see how they might be useful for older children, eg jobs charts/pocket money, but definitely not for toilet training, like you all of my kids would have been set up to fail. We are dealing with 7 yr olds and a sense of entitlement at the moment, a rewards chart would just add to that.
katef says
What is it with that sense of entitlement!?!? We have it bad here too!
And we use a chart to help my princess Vague remember what day she has to take what to school and to check off all the thing she has to put in her bag etc. No reward for getting it right, just the intrinsic motivation of knowing that if she forgets her lunch she goes hungry! LOL
Holly M says
We did a chart once when our then 3 year old was really interested in it. Did it change her behavior? Nope. She got bored if it after 3-4 days an it hung untouched on the door for a month.
I think not is odd that people feel a need to reward basic human behaviors. Going pee is a normal behavior, It it not a special event or something the person worked really hard on. It is peeing. Lets not reward normal.
katef says
Oh yes! You totally said it way better than I did!
It’s peeing… it’s not tap dancing!
Lulu says
I don`t really think they work either but I did use one with my Noah for toilet training however he just got a sticker on the chart…no prize if he got 10 stickers, no prize if he had no accidents etc he just got a sticker on a homemade chart near the toilet if he did pee or poo in the toilet. Poo took ages. He used to ask for a nappy and after 2 days of trying to make him sit on the toilet when I knew he was going to poo and it being a battle for us both I just stopped and when he asked for a nappy I would give him one and then one day he yelled “pee pee” ran to to the toilet and did a poo and he never went back.
We only used the sticker chart for the first 14 days as I only made the chart for 14 days and then we stopped. He didn`t need it and he had very few accidents after that point. He was just ready when we started…..{but he totally was not ready just after age 2}
While i know that learning to use the toilet is a “behavior” I don`t see it in the same way as say telling a child they get a prize/chocolate/sticker for what we conceive to be “good behaviour” like being quiet in the supermarket or if they stay in their own bed etc.
Curious as to how you handled Izzy`s biting as Noah bites Shion now when he wants to vent his frustrations and nothing seems to have worked so far but he seems to be getting less and less. Poor Shion has a lot of bruises though! :-(
katef says
Will write up a post on biting soon Lu Lu as my Noah is going through a biting stage right now too…
But biting is usually just another expression of frustration or lack of language… think of it in the same way you would if he hit or kicked his brother.
Elisha says
We have never used a rewards chart here, but i have been given a lot of ‘advice’ from other mothers in parks too!
Glowless says
I’m in two minds about reward charts and I normally change my view within the space of an hour. Tricky is reluctant to use the toilet and honestly, I’m just over puddles of wee everywhere (he floods through nappies because he does hold on for 6+ hours at a time). I’m so bloody close to bribery.
katef says
Oh I feel your pain… my girls took nearly 3 years to day train… and another 2.5 to night train and by the end of it I just wanted to cry every time they wet through a nappy….
We even tried bribery at one point (not a chart as much as a ‘do x and you’ll get y) but it didn’t work. It just wasn’t something my girls could control until they physically matured enough.
So I totally feel your pain, and while reward charts are not for us, that doesn’t mean they are not for you!
Meg says
Hi Kate! Do you mind sharing what you did with your girls during their training years? I have a 4-year-old that I waited until she was interested to train, and I thought was trained, but is now back to having more accidents than successful trips to the bathroom. I have done like three sticker charts with her — which totally worked for my son, but sounds like my daughter is much more like your kiddos and she is already uninterested and it hasn’t helped a bit. It seems like nothing has helped, and maybe my daughter, like you said, just isn’t physically mature enough yet. So what did you do to keep from pulling your hair out??
katepickle says
While toilet training my girls I did everything, including pulling my hair out!
It took me a LOOOOG time to really, truly accept that they still were not ready and not capable even at 3 and a half, even after we’d had some great practical advice from our pediatrician! And then it was just a matter of letting go of the guilt and waiting. But it’s not easy. It can be such a loaded thing for both kids and adults!
It’s really common for kids to regress. Sometimes it is a sign of something else that is going on (often associated with a new sibling or a change that is out of the child’s control) but sometimes it is just a glitch in the process… and just keeping going with what you’ve been doing, and maybe stepping up the gentle reminders and being patient is all you can do. But if it continues without improvement, some medical advice might be helpful, Good luck.
Laney @ Crash Test Mummy says
I have a 3yr old who is fairly disinterested in the toilet, unless we’re out and about! We did do stickers at one stage with CrashGirl, but it wasn’t a chart. We just stuck a sticker on the cistern every time she used the toilet. She was already totally capable of knowing when she needed to go though. I don’t believe in toilet training because too often it’s done for convenience when the child may not be physically ready. Hence the word ‘training’. They’re ready when they’re ready.
katef says
We do the stickers on the toilet and potty thing too… mostly to help my kids find some fun in the idea of sitting on the scary toilet or potty. It’s not scary if it’s covered in sparkly flowers! LOL
Mardi says
After baby 2 was born, I ended up back in hospital with complications, then we moved interstate, then Miss 3 got pneumonia. Unsurprisingly her behaviour went south & she started having “accidents” when she wanted attention or didn’t get her own way. The classic was weeing on her baby sisters health & immunisation book as we were leaving for Bub’s vaccinations! (try explaining THAT to your nurse)
I implemented a kind of sticker chart then, to reward (& encourage) good behaviour. Stickers are her crack so when she used manners, went to the toilet, shared etc she was given a sticker to put on a big yellow piece of card.
It helped at a time when we needed to focus on her positive behaviours & try to ignore the attention seeking. We kept it up for a fortnight & then hung her sticker artwork up her room. We still look at it & talk about behaviour in a positive way, but I’ve never felt the need to do a formal “chart” for a specific behaviour or task.
As for rewarding with food I agree BUT am totally taking the big girl to McDonalds after she gets her 4 year old shots this arvo. Hypocrite? Yup! But she’s so excited she’s asked me every hour since she woke up “is it time for needles yet?” so this hypocrite is having a McFlurry for afternoon tea!
katef says
I have found that sometimes being a hypocrite is what parenting is all about! :)
Leenie says
I have used a Reward chart for my 5yo son – but it was only so he remembered to do things… Brush Teeth, empty bag, feed fish, etc – just little tasks that i gave him to help around the house… It wasn’t for toilet training – i waited until he was ready for that, and he was nearly 3.5yo before he fully understood what was going on… i did make it a little bit fun for him, and when he was ready to stand and use the toilet, we popped a ping-pong ball in the cistern so he had something to aim at :) we still have them floating in the toilets every now and then :)
Cath says
Oh good, I need never have to resort to reward charts again. The Munchkin pretty much toilet trained himself at daycare 6 months before we attempted it, and stickers were the norm there. So we had some completely random sticker chart that didn’t mean anything. I tried again when he was 4 and starting swimming. I was scared he’d drown by getting distracted, so he was rewarded for good listening. We made reward cards and everything! Failed after 2 weeks due to lack of interest on both sides. Tried again with pocket money for household tasks at 5ish. Worked for a while – he even saved up for a substantial toy, but I hated his expectations of rewards for Every. Little. Thing. So now I’m off the hook. Thank you :)
katef says
Glad to have helped! LOL
Elise says
I’d be very surprised if a reward chart worked for any 2 year old for any behavior-way too young. In my experience they don’t work that well till child 4+.. The reward chart seems to work really well for my first born-just seems to be wired this way. Loves external recognition of good behavior-doesnt even have to be anything good-happy to just get a tick! my second is complete opposite-no interest at all in reward charts but thrives on praise and attention. Whatever works I say…
Sara says
Yeh that sure is what a blog is for, I can relate to that!
Great post, very thorough! I completely agree with that reasoning. Have you read the idle parent by Tom hodgkinson?
katef says
No but I am off to google that book right now :) Thanks!
Jo @Countrylifeexperiment says
My eldest was not interested in toilet training until the day we started renovating the bathroom… we had a portaloo sitting in the back yard. Typical! Then she wanted to 70 billion times a day because it was fun to go out to the hut. I was 5 months pregnant at the time, and wasn’t planning on toilet training her until I was over the worst of a new baby. The joy of trying to fit the 2 of us into the portaloo is something I won’t forget in a hurry (nor the inconvenience of going out there 10 times a night while pregnant!).Fortunately she got it pretty quickly.
I don’t do charts, and stickers etc for anything – mainly because it is too much hassle, but also I don’t believe they are ultimately a useful tool for me and my kids.
TanG says
With you all the way Kate! Alfie Kohn’s ‘punished by rewards’ says it all…. Besides, nappy weaning is a summer sport!
katef says
I couldn’t agree with you more!
And good old Alfie made big changes in the way I teach and made me a better parent… l